I'll commence with a fact. I normally ask for a recent photo of the artist of writer (etc) I interview, but on this occasion we start with an image of John Ostrander's brief appearance in 2021's The Suicide Squad. (I'm feeling confident we'll come back to that at some stage.)... Also as you are about to discover if you ever need directions, or if you happen to visit Chicago, he may be just the right man to ask if you are after a tasty hot dog.
I started by asking John to tell me a little bit about himself, and he didn't disappoint, "I'm from Chicago originally; I lived there for some 35 years and am still a Chicago boy at heart. As a real Chicagoan I can tell you what a real Chicagoan puts on their hot dogs -- any fucking thing they want. It's their dog! You don't think ketchup should go on a hot dog? Don't put ketchup on your hot dog. I put it on mine. My teams are the Cubs (I'm a Northsider so that's mandated by law.) and Da Bears. If it doesn't involve them, then I don't care. I have just a peripheral interest in the Blackhawks and Da Bulls. Howzat?"
Paul: Spot on I say !
John: Chicago is a great town and well worth the visit, not just for the hot dogs. Great food town. They have an outdoor food festival called Taste Of Chicago which lets you sample a lot of Chi-town foods.
Paul: Wow... Let's start at the very beginning. How did your relationship with comics begin? What were the first comics you remember reading and how old would you have you been?
John: I started with newspaper comic strips and then I went on to comic books. Unfortunately, my mother read (or heard about) Wertham's SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT that peddled such hooey as Batman and Robin were gay and that superhero comic books led to juvenile delinquency and so superhero comics were forbidden in our house which meant, of course, that I had to have them. I would get a stash, Mom would find them, toss them out, scold me, and the cycle would start again. However, I was allowed Classics Illustrated and other innocuous comics. At Catholic grade school they had a comic that came out monthly called TREASURE CHEST which had several features, some of which were pretty good. I also got some Harvey comics (which were allowed) and I got two giant books of THE SPIRIT and that was my initiation to Will Eisner which was great. Profound impact. This was in the late 50s, early 60s and I thought The Spirit was contemporary.
John: I started with newspaper comic strips and then I went on to comic books. Unfortunately, my mother read (or heard about) Wertham's SEDUCTION OF THE INNOCENT that peddled such hooey as Batman and Robin were gay and that superhero comic books led to juvenile delinquency and so superhero comics were forbidden in our house which meant, of course, that I had to have them. I would get a stash, Mom would find them, toss them out, scold me, and the cycle would start again. However, I was allowed Classics Illustrated and other innocuous comics. At Catholic grade school they had a comic that came out monthly called TREASURE CHEST which had several features, some of which were pretty good. I also got some Harvey comics (which were allowed) and I got two giant books of THE SPIRIT and that was my initiation to Will Eisner which was great. Profound impact. This was in the late 50s, early 60s and I thought The Spirit was contemporary.
.
Paul: Can I ask at that time how hard was it to collect comics? It was before the era of having a local comic shop.
.
John: No local shops. Spinner racks and so on. You could never be sure you could pick up the next issue of a continued story. I don't think I came upon a comic shop until I was in college.
.
.
Paul: So what made you want to write comics? Also, did you receive many rejection letters trying to become published? For many writers it is an almost compulsory rite of passage to end up with a handful of them.
.
John: I was writing plays and stuff; some plays were produced. My friend Mike Gold liked my plays and knew I loved comics so, when he helped found First Comics and became its editor, he offered me a gig. The rest is hysteria.
John: I was writing plays and stuff; some plays were produced. My friend Mike Gold liked my plays and knew I loved comics so, when he helped found First Comics and became its editor, he offered me a gig. The rest is hysteria.
.
Paul: First Comics are remembered by many fans very fondly. This must have been in the early 80's which was a great time for smaller publishers. Is it fair to say you slightly honed your skill writing comics on Grimjack? It was one of the publisher's many successes.
John: Actually, writing plays probably honed my skills, and I used to do a 4 panel comic to amuse myself and friends. It taught me how to write to a panel strip.
John: Actually, writing plays probably honed my skills, and I used to do a 4 panel comic to amuse myself and friends. It taught me how to write to a panel strip.
Paul: Can you talk about Grimjack please? It was a character you co-created that had an impressive eighty plus issue run?
John: GJ started out to be prose project, meant for short stories and novels. It was set in a post Apocalyptic Chicago. I was working for First, taking over Starslayer from Mike Grill. I knew First was looking for new projects and had read about my Cynosure in a WARP Special. I thought it would be the perfect setting. So I wrote up a proposal and they went for it, but as a back-up to Starslayer. They told me Gaunt was too old, too grim and gritty (first time I heard the term.) If the fans took to it, then maybe in a year or two down the line he could get his own book. 9 months or so after GJ first appeared his first issue came out; fan response was that big. We hunted around for an artist and First found Timothy Truman and that's when I first met him. He contributed so much to the look and feel of the character that I had the contract adjusted so he got half the rights and listed as co-creator.
.
Paul: You eventually made the move to DC. Was that something you were actively pursuing or was that again, for lack of a better expression, almost by invite?
.
John: I was looking to put my eggs into more than one basket. I wanted to land a gig with one of the two majors -- DC or Marvel. I had struck up a relationship with Robert Greenberger at DC and we were in talks for what would become SUICIDE SQUAD. Mike Gold moved to DC from First and landed the assignment for the first company wide crossover after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. This became LEGENDS. Mike brought me into plot it and, at his suggestion, we also used it as a launchpad for the Squad. So it was something that I was pursuing but it was also by invite.
.
Paul: You eventually made the move to DC. Was that something you were actively pursuing or was that again, for lack of a better expression, almost by invite?
.
John: I was looking to put my eggs into more than one basket. I wanted to land a gig with one of the two majors -- DC or Marvel. I had struck up a relationship with Robert Greenberger at DC and we were in talks for what would become SUICIDE SQUAD. Mike Gold moved to DC from First and landed the assignment for the first company wide crossover after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. This became LEGENDS. Mike brought me into plot it and, at his suggestion, we also used it as a launchpad for the Squad. So it was something that I was pursuing but it was also by invite.
Paul: Legends was a pretty big deal at the time because it launched a lot of other series. For your first work DC work was that quite a daunting challenge? Also can you say what is was like working alongside Len Wein on script duty and John Byrne?
John: I'd met Len several times on the Convention Circuit; same with John Byrne. LEGENDS was the first time Byrne was drawing the DC characters after his celebrated move from Marvel so it was a big deal. Len was a great guy and DC could rely on him to make sure the characters were done right. The idea with bringing me on was to give it a fresh slant and something less cosmic than CRISIS while still making it a compelling series. CRISIS also spelled the end of some books so the concept of launching some new books was key to LEGENDS. I think it worked well; the TPB is still on sale all these years later.
Paul: Can you say anything else about John Byrne in general? His move to DC from Marvel was, as you say, huge at the time. Shifting from one of the big two to the other was "headline" news. Was his Superman relaunch all planned ahead as part of the storyline?
John: Outside of LEGENDS, I didn't work with Byrne as far as I can recall.
Paul: So inevitably we come the title you are arguably most famous for writing. Whilst being a relauch of sorts Suicide Squad as we know it now is practically your creation. Would that be a fair comment?
John: Oh yeah. I originally wanted to do CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN which I consider one of the best titles in comics but somebody else had dibs on it. I was offered SUICIDE SQUAD and told I could do whatever I wanted to with it. My first reaction was: "What a stupid name. Who in their right minds volunteers to be in a group that calls itself Suicide Squad." Then I thought -- maybe those who have no other choice. Hmm. Who would that be? Prisoners, maybe. In the DCU, that might mean supervillains. Well, I always loved books like SUPER-SOCIETY OF SUPERVILLAINS so that was appealing, and I loved the movie DIRTY DOZEN, and I loved espionage stories. I love doing narrative alloys -- a bit of this, a bit of that, make a new narrative. So that's what I did and that's how SUICIDE SQUAD came about.
Paul: Can you say anything else about John Byrne in general? His move to DC from Marvel was, as you say, huge at the time. Shifting from one of the big two to the other was "headline" news. Was his Superman relaunch all planned ahead as part of the storyline?
John: Outside of LEGENDS, I didn't work with Byrne as far as I can recall.
Paul: So inevitably we come the title you are arguably most famous for writing. Whilst being a relauch of sorts Suicide Squad as we know it now is practically your creation. Would that be a fair comment?
John: Oh yeah. I originally wanted to do CHALLENGERS OF THE UNKNOWN which I consider one of the best titles in comics but somebody else had dibs on it. I was offered SUICIDE SQUAD and told I could do whatever I wanted to with it. My first reaction was: "What a stupid name. Who in their right minds volunteers to be in a group that calls itself Suicide Squad." Then I thought -- maybe those who have no other choice. Hmm. Who would that be? Prisoners, maybe. In the DCU, that might mean supervillains. Well, I always loved books like SUPER-SOCIETY OF SUPERVILLAINS so that was appealing, and I loved the movie DIRTY DOZEN, and I loved espionage stories. I love doing narrative alloys -- a bit of this, a bit of that, make a new narrative. So that's what I did and that's how SUICIDE SQUAD came about.
John: Oh, and I also specified wanted to be able to kill one or two characters from time to time. Which is why I usually went for the C or D list villains -- nobody cared what they did. I took one D list bad guy -- a Batman villain named Deadshot -- who had a cool costume designed by Marshall Rogers and made a new background for him and he became a star.
.
Paul: Well you are quite rightly credited with creating Amanda Waller who is a powerhouse of a character. Can you list any other characters you'd like to lay claim to creating, or redeveloping to the point of re-creating them? Was that the the case with many of the charcaters you wrote?
Paul: Well you are quite rightly credited with creating Amanda Waller who is a powerhouse of a character. Can you list any other characters you'd like to lay claim to creating, or redeveloping to the point of re-creating them? Was that the the case with many of the charcaters you wrote?
John: It was. I did a new version of Mr. Terrific in THE SPECTRE. The original was killed off in a JLA/JSA crossover many many years ago. I wanted to mirror the origin of the 1st Mr. Terrific and it seemed to me that having him be black would allow that. He was also one of the smartest people in the DCU if not THE smartest and having a black man be that appealed to me. I also created Dr. Richard Craemer in SUICIDE SQUAD who, I think, appeared in the last season of STARGIRL. Deadshot also was re-developed by me. He was really a lower tier Batman villain when I plucked him from WHO'S WHO. I developed/tampered with a lot of the villains who wandered through. Jan Duursema and I created WHITE DRAGON in HAWKWORLD who was used is the PEACEMAKER show. I think I rarely used a villain in SQUAD just as they were.
.
Paul: Do you still follow the latest Suicide Squad comics? Rob Williams' recent run on the title was certainly well reviewed.
John: When I leave a book, I generally don't read it again. The new creators should have the opportunity to create their vision of the property without thinking I'm looking over their shoulder and judging. I had the opportunity to create freely and they should also.
.
Paul: Inevitably I have to ask you about the two Suicide Squad movies. Firstly the 2016 effort by David Ayer? What did you think of it? ...And to the best of your knowledge (if you are allowed to say) is there any truth in the stories that there is a director's cut in existence?
Paul: I liked it well enough. I have my own DVD copy and watch it fairly frequently. I'm not sure Ayers was allowed to make the movie he wanted. I love the Gunn movie; I did have a cameo in it so, of course, it is the better movie. I know of no director's cut of either film. I'd love to see what Ayers could have done with the first movie if given a director's cut.
Paul: I have used a photo of yourself during your cameo as the header for this interview. Could I ask how your cameo appearance came about? Was it a fun experience?
John: The cameo came about with a call from the studio asking if I'd be interested. Of course I was interested. The date was set and the studio covered all expenses -- flight, hotel, food -- and I was paid a fee. I came down the day before the shoot for a costumne fitting and then onto the soundstage where I was greeted by James Gunn and his staff with cries of "We're not worthy!" On the day of the shoot I had my own trailer while I waited for my call. I read the part of the script that had my scene. Finally, we came to the shooting which was fascinating. James Gunn threw me some lines on set, one of which got into the film. ("Good dog.")
John: Later, they filmed an interview with me and James which was a good time and after that I was taken to the airport and flown back home where they had a driver waiting for me. It was absolutely one of the best days of my life. Gunn knew the source material and was keen to make sure the movie caught its vibe.
.
Paul: Can I ask about the series Wasteland? It was a rather out of the ordinary DC series. It was an out of continuity anthology title. How did that title come to exist?
.
John: It was Mike Gold's idea. I visited him and we walked around a pond in a drizzle. I was resistant at first -- I'm not really into horror -- but Mike convinced me. I've found in the past that when Mike pitches something to me, it's smart to say "yes". So we brought in Del Close -- he wrote many MUNDEN'S BAR stories with me -- and there was the idea launched that Del would do some autobiographical stories in WASTELAND. We debated what to call it; Del wanted to call the book MISOGYNIST FUNNIES but we disuaded him and went for WASTELAND.
Paul: I always loved Issue Six of Wasteland for the pure white cover. I believe many people thought it was deliberate, but I later read it was due to a rather odd editorial mix up. Can your share your recollections of how that occured?
John: It was a pure editorial mix-up and I wasn't involved. I think Mike was away or something and the wrong cover got put on so Mike got DC to reprint the book with a white cover. Not completely sure.
.
Paul: Frankly as a fan I loved it.
.
Paul: Frankly as a fan I loved it.
.
John: It is one of the more popular covers. Lots of fans at Cons ask an artists (or even me!) to draw something on it. Not just the Wasteland artists either.
.
Paul: It would be difficult to talk about every comic you have written. So I will not attempt such a thing, but I must ask about Star Wars. You have written pretty substantially for the "Glalaxy Far Far Away" for Dark Horse comics. Yet before I ask about those comics, can I enquire please: Are you a big Star Wars Fan? Do you have a favourite movie? Do you collect any of the toys or merchandise?
.
John: I was a SW fan from BEFORE the first movie came out. I saw the adaption paperback and thought it looked interesting so I picked it up, bought it, read it, and was impressed. I thought if they could get 50% of what was in the book on the film it would be pretty good. Of course, they got 200% of what was in the book on the screen. I had never seen anything like it and neither had the rest of the audience. I've seen all of the movies and, I think, and all the television series. My most fave is the first one, now known as Episode IV. Also Episode V, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, and ROGUE ONE. I've gotten some of the action figures and I have a Millenium Falcom keychain and some SW Christmas ornaments.
.
Paul: It would be difficult to talk about every comic you have written. So I will not attempt such a thing, but I must ask about Star Wars. You have written pretty substantially for the "Glalaxy Far Far Away" for Dark Horse comics. Yet before I ask about those comics, can I enquire please: Are you a big Star Wars Fan? Do you have a favourite movie? Do you collect any of the toys or merchandise?
.
John: I was a SW fan from BEFORE the first movie came out. I saw the adaption paperback and thought it looked interesting so I picked it up, bought it, read it, and was impressed. I thought if they could get 50% of what was in the book on the film it would be pretty good. Of course, they got 200% of what was in the book on the screen. I had never seen anything like it and neither had the rest of the audience. I've seen all of the movies and, I think, and all the television series. My most fave is the first one, now known as Episode IV. Also Episode V, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, and ROGUE ONE. I've gotten some of the action figures and I have a Millenium Falcom keychain and some SW Christmas ornaments.
Paul: You wrote so extensively for the Star Wars Universe comics that were published by Dark Horse Comics it is tricky to ask you about a specific title or issue.... So instead I'd like to ask YOU if you have a favourite storyline or series you wrote in the Star Wars universe. Are there any issues or stories you are especially proud of writing?
John: I'm really proud in general of the time I spent on SW and my work with my partner, Jan Duursema. I think our work on LEGACY will be, well, our legacy but I'm proud of everything we did and the characters we created. It should be noted that Jan did just about all of the design work all by herself. The movies had teams of people on the design stuff. I also really enjoyed doing AGENT OF THE EMPIRE, which was SW meets James Bond. Jan's and my SW work went for a long time and stands out in my whole body of work.
.
Paul: After the Disney buy out of Lucasfilm for just over four billion dollars in October of 2012 it was soon after stated that the extended Star Wars universe created by so many talented artists and writers was no longer official canon. To use a comic book expression it was no longer meant to be recognised as continuity to use a comic book expression. Please tell me as a Star Wars fan and one of those creators involved was that at least a little bit annoying. Would that be accurate to say?
.
John: Continuity is always changing and evolving because it has to. DC and Marvel have changed their continuity from time to time (although Marvel doesn't really admit it). Lucas himself, (when he did Episodes 1-3) changed some of the EU. He liked it but we were told he didn't feel bound narratively by it. My SW work is still in print and Marvel/Disney has done a lot of the re-printing, and I get royalties for it. I never have owned the stories, the characters, or any part of the source material so I've never had any sort of control on it. I can view it all professionally and pragmatically.
.
Paul:You wrote several issues of The Punisher for Marvel. I am curious how you approached writing Frank Castle. Is he a one dimensional killing machine or is he a fascinating and lonely tortured soul?
.
John: I got the book when I was asked to submit a proposal for a new direction and promised $200 for it. Not being real interested, I wrote a proposal where Castle JOINED the Mafia. They went for it. I didn't think they'd go for it when I wrote the full proposal. I don't regard my time on the book as a big success. We changed directions a few times. The last one -- where Castle lost his memory -- was actually the most interesting to me but the book was soon after cancelled.
Paul: Over the last twenty to thirty years technology and computers have impacted the way comics are produced. This would be especially true for artists, but have those changes altered your approach to writing a great deal? Also has it changed your reading habits? Do you you occasionally use a tablet or laptop to read digital comics?
.
John: When I started to write I was on a manual typewriter. If I wanted to do research I had to go to the library IF it was open. Submitting my script was sending a physical script via FedEx. I first wrote my scripts in longhand before typing them on the manual with carbons for my record. I then went to an electric writer. My first computer was a Mac Plus. I used a dial-up modem. I printed my script up via dor matrix printers and again sent them in via FedEx, often making a late-night dash to the last FedEX station open. I talked to my editors via telephone and long distance. Today I submit my script directly to the appropriate office and communicate more via zoom. I can research things 24 hours a day. So -- yes, there have been changes. I haven't really gotten into digital comics. I read books on Kindle because I can adjust the size of the font. Lots of changes.
.
Paul: A part of the job for most comic creators is attending conventions. Apart from COVID rather throwing a huge spanner in the works in recent years, are conventions something you enjoy? Have you ever been slightly "starstruck" meeting any of your own artistic heroes?
John: She didn't really know who I was but she had seen me being nice to some youngsters and hoped I would be nice to her. I signed and opened her portfolio. By the third page I was bouncing up and down in my seat; I made Greenberger look at the pages. "Look at this!" I demanded. "She should be working RIGHT NOW!" She had a command of storytelling, of figures, of place that just floored me (and still does). I jumped over the table, grabbed her portfpolio, and told her to follow me. I was going to show it to every editor that I could find. She followed because, as she later told me, she thought a madman was running away with her portfolio which, I suppose to some degree she was right and still is. My late wife Kim Yale also became very enthused about Mary and we all became great friends. Eventually, after kim's passing, Mary and I became more.
.
Paul: A part of the job for most comic creators is attending conventions. Apart from COVID rather throwing a huge spanner in the works in recent years, are conventions something you enjoy? Have you ever been slightly "starstruck" meeting any of your own artistic heroes?
.
Paul: That is easily the best convention story I have ever heard. Thank you for sharing that with me..... My final question is simply this. What does the future hold for John Ostrander. Is there anything you would like to shamelessly promote at all?
John: Nothing to promote at the moment.
John: Shapeshifting. I sort of do that internally as a writer anyway.
Paul: John, thank you for your time.